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Wherein Michelle is irritated

rco-2
Someone on Facebook kindly pointed out that someone appears to be selling a used (!) copy of Cast in Silence on Amazon.com.

Cast in Silence doesn't exist as a new book yet. It doesn't exist as an ARC yet. It barely exists as a finished manuscript, because I am still working my way through the AAs mentioned a couple of days ago.

The "merchant" in question is asking how much? Guess. The answer is here.

I'm not entirely sure what he -- or to be fair, she or they -- hope to gain from this, and mine is not the only "used" book offered for sale at this price. The other one thirty seconds of perusal turned up is Maria Snyder's also as yet unpublished book. I cannot imagine that anyone--besides a publisher--would pay 1,000.00 for a book of mine, let alone one that doesn't even exist.

So. Just in case you're curious: He isn't selling an ARC. Because it doesn't exist. He isn't, as far as I can tell, selling anything genuine. If anyone asks you about this, please pass it on, or point them here.

Comments

( 43 comments — Leave a comment )
[info]debmats wrote:
Apr. 10th, 2009 11:25 pm (UTC)
Same company is trying to sell a copy of Steve Miller and Sharon Lee's Fledgling for the same price.
[info]jhghendriks wrote:
Apr. 10th, 2009 11:29 pm (UTC)
You could buy it.
It would save you the time writing it ;-)
[info]desayunoencama wrote:
Apr. 10th, 2009 11:31 pm (UTC)
Not sure what the scam is but he's asking for $1000 for a copy of Jean Redmann's not-yet-out mystery, too:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/1602820759/ref=dp_olp_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1239401649&sr=8-1
[info]nightsinger wrote:
Apr. 10th, 2009 11:46 pm (UTC)
Can I assume you've reported them to Amazon? Your word will have a lot more weight than ours in the matter, methinks!
[info]arouraleona wrote:
Apr. 11th, 2009 05:30 am (UTC)
Actually just a straight report from her doesn't do much good because they don't have a lot of ways to verify her as the author. Her publisher/vendor might be a better option. Reporting the seller is a great idea though. Since it is obvious from the main page that the book isn't out yet and he HAS to be selling an illegal copy. (I worked for Amazon for a while).
[info]rolanni wrote:
Apr. 10th, 2009 11:49 pm (UTC)
Michelle, I just had to write to the SAME GUY -- charging that same absurd $1,000 -- for one of our books that won't be published until September. He did take it down; said I was "right" and he didn't have that book at all. It was "an error."

Well...duh.
[info]e_booklover wrote:
Apr. 11th, 2009 12:19 am (UTC)
used unpublished copies...
I was browsing Amazon and he is also selling one of Maya Banks unpublished books for the same price with the same description.
[info]stillnotbored wrote:
Apr. 11th, 2009 12:27 am (UTC)
He has an unpublished Twilight Book up as well. If Meyer's lawyers get wind of that this guy will never see daylight again.

I will say this scam takes a lot of guts and very little brain.
[info]nagasvoice wrote:
Apr. 11th, 2009 12:34 am (UTC)
I agree, reporting it as a scam to Amazon is good--if commenters could go report it to the other writers, that would be a huge favor to them and to readers who might get scammed.
[info]wolfsilveroak wrote:
Apr. 11th, 2009 01:38 am (UTC)
Please report him to Amazon. He needs to be banned.
[info]bobafet wrote:
Apr. 11th, 2009 02:07 am (UTC)
Less banned and more arrested and charged, but yes.. ;D
[info]wolfsilveroak wrote:
Apr. 12th, 2009 02:25 am (UTC)
Whatever works.}:P

I'll settle for flogged publicly. Heh.
[info]braider wrote:
Apr. 11th, 2009 02:16 am (UTC)
No chance a person got hold of a draft?
[info]msagara wrote:
Apr. 11th, 2009 02:24 am (UTC)
No chance a person got hold of a draft?

No chance whatsoever. And none of the ARC, either; the AAs are the step -before- the page proofs that their internal proofreaders read. Those pages are the ones that will be used for galleys; the ones I'm working on now lead directly into those ones.

[info]hascape wrote:
Apr. 11th, 2009 02:20 am (UTC)
I sent a headsup to Jane at Dear Author and she has posted an alert on the blog. Plus I have checked at this store and Jayne Ann Krentz plus a few others are also affected. I hope this gets sorted out soon and amazon will finally do something.
[info]msagara wrote:
Apr. 11th, 2009 02:25 am (UTC)
Thank you -- I did call amazon.com, and I filled out a web-form stating the problem clearly; the call, with holds, took about an hour, but hopefully some good will come of it.
[info]mmarques wrote:
Apr. 11th, 2009 02:42 am (UTC)
An hour? wow! Even if they didn't believe that you were the author, the "new" tab clearly states that a purchase is a pre-order. So it should totally be obvious that there are no used copies!

Amazon.com shouldn't make it possible to sell used copies of books that are only available new by "pre-order".
[info]msagara wrote:
Apr. 11th, 2009 02:48 am (UTC)
They took the initial complaint, after some confusion, and then had to escalate it (what this means is that I was on hold while they were talking to someone else. Then on hold again).

What it also means is that I haven't finished my AA pages for the day =/
[info]twiegand wrote:
Apr. 11th, 2009 02:42 am (UTC)
Maybe the guy has a time machine that he is using to bring such items back from the future. More likely, this sounds like wire fraud and would be a federal offense if he is in the US. I hope someone gets him.

However, I am looking forward to reading a legitimate copy of the book when it is available.
[info]damedini wrote:
Apr. 11th, 2009 02:55 am (UTC)
Oh dear. And how much do you wanna bet that some poor dork does fall for it? I mean /one/ of the scams, not necessarily your book.
[info]dancinghorse wrote:
Apr. 11th, 2009 03:24 am (UTC)
It's weird because he lists books that are actually published for normal used-book prices. Has a storefront and everything.

It's remotely possible he could have a bug in his system. Will be interested to find out what happened there.
[info]motteditor wrote:
Apr. 11th, 2009 03:57 am (UTC)
Especially when you also consider the positive comments on his profile. I guess he could set up some bot to do that, though.
[info]msagara wrote:
Apr. 11th, 2009 04:01 am (UTC)
Not really. For an on-line vendor, from an ebay buyer perspective, he has an abysmally low rating for the number of sales he actually has. I wouldn't order from him. Basically, anything less than about 99.5 with that number of sales is a no-go, for me.
[info]motteditor wrote:
Apr. 11th, 2009 04:04 am (UTC)
Whoops, shows what I know. : ) I generally don't buy used books online.

Now get back to writing the House War sequel. I want to know what happens when Jewel gets back from the Dominion or when Angel will show up (and what the story is with that hair) since he (IIRC) was the one den member not in book one! : )
[info]msagara wrote:
Apr. 11th, 2009 04:12 am (UTC)
Whoops, shows what I know. : ) I generally don't buy used books online.

And that, on my side, was incredibly terse, which I didn't intend, and for which I apologize. I generally buy no fiction at all on-line, because I really like to browse in bookstores. But I have bought a number of dictionaries on-line because you can find them for 9 or 10 dollars used, when they cost 80.00 new. And on ebay, losing even half a percent at 13k customers means you and the customer couldn't come to some reasonable conclusion. 100%, on the other hand, probably means that you're losing money on some people who know you don't want to drop your approval rating...

And as for the latter, Angel is the opener for the next book, in a longish sequence that does, in fact, involve his hair, in part :)
[info]motteditor wrote:
Apr. 11th, 2009 12:53 pm (UTC)
No worries about terseness. I didn't consider it that way at all; just information I didn't know.

Hurrah for Angel, though.
(Anonymous) wrote:
Apr. 11th, 2009 03:52 pm (UTC)
And I want to say thank you again for letting me read the prologue of House Name last Confluence.
**insert copious amounts of praise and fawning here**
And I will try my hardest to attend Confluence again this year. You really are a riot. :)

Michael
[info]wolfsilveroak wrote:
Apr. 12th, 2009 02:27 am (UTC)
Shh! I just got The Hidden City yesterday.}:P

I'm still reading Hunter's Death. LOL
[info]motteditor wrote:
Apr. 12th, 2009 02:29 am (UTC)
Whoops! I'm so sorry. I figured we were safe for spoilers for that one. Glad I didn't give away anything too big.

Enjoy Hunter's Death. It's one of my favorites of the series.
(Anonymous) wrote:
Apr. 11th, 2009 04:11 pm (UTC)
Understanding Feedback Ratings
On eBay, almost 100% of the customers leave feedback for every purchase they make.

On Amazon.com, only about 10% of the customers leave any feedback at all (this is an accurate statistic -I can find its source/reference if you so desire).

A well known statistic in the retail industry is: A unhappy customer is 10 times more likely to talk about their experience (or leave negative feedback) than a happy customer (who would be leaving a positive feedback). (I can cite a source for this statistic as well - if so desire)

Accounting for the ratio of (item sales/feedback posted) on Amazon, and considering the Happy customer vs. Unhappy customer feedback post ratio:

An Amazon seller with 90% positive feedback has similar performance rating to an eBay seller with 99% positive feedback. Do not compare apples to oranges - the 2 feedback rating systems are completely different (and both are just as effective, if you understand how they work).
[info]msagara wrote:
Apr. 11th, 2009 04:27 pm (UTC)
Re: Understanding Feedback Ratings
On Amazon.com, only about 10% of the customers leave any feedback at all (this is an accurate statistic -I can find its source/reference if you so desire).

I, at least, would be interested in seeing the source or reference. On ebay, customers don't always leave feedback, fwiw. But the feedback system on ebay serves a distinct customer purpose. As a consumer, I check the feedback ratings, and I also check the complaints listed as negatives, to see what the problems were or are.

And at this point in time, given the accuracy issues already being discussed, and the nature of the complaints in the negative feedback for the particular seller, I would not buy from him. But I am currently writing a longer post on some of the issues that have come up, which will hopefully be up shortly.
[info]msagara wrote:
Apr. 11th, 2009 04:41 pm (UTC)
Re: Understanding Feedback Ratings
If you don't receive feedback quickly, don't be discouraged. Most Amazon sellers receive feedback on 10% - 20% of their sales. Please know that leaving feedback is an individual's choice, not a requirement for using our site. Amazon.com cannot compel buyers to leave feedback.

Is what the Amazon.com site says. However, it also states:

We focus on negative feedback ratings as a percentage of total feedback ratings (the "Negative Feedback Rate") as an indicator of seller performance. Our very best sellers have a close to 0% Negative Feedback Rate.

Since your rating is calculated only as a percentage of feedback received, why don't we assume that the people who didn't leave feedback are neutral. They don't care either way. This leaves the very happy and the very annoyed. Your amazon.com score therefore deals with either end of the spectrum, however if a customer is dissatisfied, and a resolution can be worked out between you and the customer, the negative rating can be clawed back, or further feedback can be left.

What this tells me as a consumer, when I'm perusing ratings and reasons for them is what you do when things don't work out smoothly or perfectly. This is also what I get from ebay listings of the same.

So for me, 9% of the feedback received is unhappy with either product or lack of receipt. Which is 9% of the 10% that responded, which is still too high.

Edited at 2009-04-11 04:41 pm (UTC)
[info]threegoldfish wrote:
Apr. 11th, 2009 07:05 pm (UTC)
Re: Understanding Feedback Ratings
My experience as a buyer leaving negative feedback was that the seller was refunding me at the same time I was leaving the feedback and I didn't know. Once I realized this, I deleted my feedback. HOwever, I could not go back and leave a more positive note.

One thing about amazon feedback that's worth checking is what comment was left. I've seen people leave negative seller marks on the editorial content of the book, not the seller's performance. But generally that's only really an issue for low-volume sellers.
[info]burger_eater wrote:
Apr. 11th, 2009 04:57 am (UTC)
What is that seller thinking? Cheats and con artists can be so clumsy and stupid about it.
(Anonymous) wrote:
Apr. 11th, 2009 08:32 am (UTC)
I AM TSCBOOKS
There is no FRAUD going on here - there was a database error during a database merge that caused a few ISBN's in my multi-million book inventory to get corrupted. When that file was loaded into an Amazon server, it listed some books for sale that I do not have. A built-in safety measure increased the price of these items (items for which my inventory management system cannot verify the existence of in any of our warehouses). The prices were raised up high enough to prevent anyone from ever considering buying the items, then when a live person (not an automated inventory management system) verifies the error in the inventory, that suspect item will be removed from our master database.

There has been many accusations about these books that were accidentally offered for sale, some pretty wild accusations I might add, and I am disturbed that no one ever thought that TSCBOOKS (me) may have simply made a mistake.

I am not a cheat or a con artist, as this post has stated, I am an honest business man trying to run a large book company. If I was attempting to defraud anyone by selling them books that I do not have, would it not make more sense for me to offer these books for sale at a price that someone might actually pay? No one would pay $1000 for one of these books, especially one that obviously is not available for sale yet. This is the very reason why the price is set so high when a potential system error is detected -So No One Will Buy That Item.

You should reconsider how you look at the world - the most obvious reason for all of this commotion is "A Mistake". Most of the posts here are taking the assumption that bad intention were the reason for these books being offered for sale. Not a single person offered the idea that someone or something at TSCBOOKS "might have made a mistake". Why do you think it had to be something bad that TSCBOOKS did? Is that more exciting to you? I apologize if this was a simply, boring, unintentional computer error, but that is exactly what happened.

Please forgive me for having a computer error. Please note that our database safety systems instantly prevented anyone from buying these books (at least anyone that would not spend $1000 for a book that is probably worth less than $5O). Not a single person has attempted to buy any of the books in question yet, and I am fairly sure that no one will ever try to do so. If anyone would attempt to buy an item that I determine I dont really have, their order would be cancelled immideatly, their payment would immideatly be refunded and the sale canceled since the item is unavailable.

Please let me know if there is any immediate action anyone would request I take in regards to any of these books in question - please post a response on this web site.

Thanks for taking the time to discuss this.

TSCBOOKS

[info]rolanni wrote:
Apr. 11th, 2009 11:45 am (UTC)
Re: I AM TSCBOOKS
I am not a cheat or a con artist, as this post has stated, I am an honest business man trying to run a large book company. If I was attempting to defraud anyone by selling them books that I do not have, would it not make more sense for me to offer these books for sale at a price that someone might actually pay? No one would pay $1000 for one of these books, especially one that obviously is not available for sale yet. This is the very reason why the price is set so high when a potential system error is detected -So No One Will Buy That Item.

I'm sorry, sir; you are in error. I know for a fact (having received the check) that my readers will pay that much money for one of our books. I expect the rest of the (several) writers affected by your "system" have readers who would also pay that much money in order to get their anticipated new book months "ahead of time."

If this is in fact your "system" I respectfully submit that it's ...rather silly. And more than enough trouble for you. Maybe you ought to find another one. Like, filtering by publication date.

Sharon Lee

(Anonymous) wrote:
Apr. 11th, 2009 03:57 pm (UTC)
Re: I AM TSCBOOKS
The problem was an erroneous ISBN uploaded into an inventory database - it just happened to be that the ISBN submitted did actually exist, it was the ISBN of this yet to be released book. Your suggestion was excellent. For now on, I will filter my inventory files for any publication date that is in the future. This will ensure an error like this never happens again. I have had many minor errors in my inventory as do most large booksellers. When distributed inventories as large as mine are managed, the chance of errors increases with each passing day. Thousands of updates happen every hour, a simply transposed digit in an ISBN causes a new phantom item to be entered into the inventory.

When this happened in the past (rarely I might add), the result phantom book was already released for sale and was available with a lot of sellers anyway - that caused no commotion. This current error affected an entire file, and the phantom items in my inventory turned out to be books that were not yet released. This has caused a lot of commotion, and I sincerely apologize for that.


Thank you for the Publication Date Filtering Idea, I am going to add that filtering method to my database

TSCBOOKS
[info]fyrna wrote:
Apr. 11th, 2009 07:58 pm (UTC)
Re: I AM TSCBOOKS
FWIW, the guy's explanation makes sense. Artificially increasing the prince to $1000 for an erroneous entry is not the most brilliant idea--the system should filter out such entries and instead report an error some other way--but I can well imagine someone programming the system that way because it's easy and they don't realize it could cause serious problems later on. I might use a trick like that myself if I were working on some unimportant scripts, but it's not something appropriate for a production system. Detected errors shouldn't make it into the output in a production system, they should be caught and reported elsewhere.

Wrt filtering, it seems to me he hadn't realized that as-yet-unpublished books would enter the system, so there wasn't even the thought of code to handle that. The system just detected "an error" and this was its (admittedly very poor) way of handling it.
[info]msagara wrote:
Apr. 11th, 2009 08:24 pm (UTC)
Re: I AM TSCBOOKS
His entry makes partial sense to me, but his explanation of what caused the problem doesn't, oddly enough. I did write a longer post (and bump up his letter), in which I address this a bit.
[info]shannachie wrote:
Apr. 11th, 2009 07:30 am (UTC)
It makes me almost envious. I have problems selling my finished books...
I assume time travel accounts for the high cost, though.
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